I read a
Craigslist repost by a "recovering nice guy" directed towards past girlfriends:
What happened to all the nice guys? The answer is simple: you did.
See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He'd tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn't feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were ****ing treated you.
The post goes on in this vein, with an increasing amount of bitterness.
I have a strong reaction to posts like this. I have next to zero sympathy for "nice guys". I guess it comes down to a few aspects of the nice guy mindset:
- Nice guys assume the opposite of a nice guy is an "@$$hole". That's not true - the opposite of nice guy is being a man (more on that below).
- Nice guys take no responsibility for their love life. They are nice, so they "deserve" for the girl to appreciate them for who they are
- Nice guys demonize women for not seeing how great nice guys are.
I disagree with all three of these thoughts.
1) The Opposite of Being a Nice GuyAre you hiding your feelings from a girl you love? Figuring you'll get close to her as a friend, and then surprise her with your feelings later? Constantly downplaying the sexual tension so that she's not threatened by you?
We've all been there. At some point though, you have to grow up. I don't know how to put this other than: be a man. If you like someone, don't hide your feelings. You don't have to ask a girl out the first time you meet her. But don't talk about other girls and encourage her to talk about guys.
You don't have to be super smooth, and it's totally fine to be friends with someone as you get to know each other. But be a man. Don't be afraid to flirt a little bit (or banter with someone) if you like them. Invite them out to a fun bar or restaurant, and then make sure you know the menu and have a plan. After dinner, have the name of 3 places you could go afterwards to keep the conversation going. Being prepared is always appreciated (as long as you don't overdo it, which is creepy).
Most girls don't want to date @$$holes. They just want to date a man. There's a big difference.
2) Take responsibilityBeing nice doesn't mean you deserve anything.
Love is something you have to earn. Is someone you like not falling for you? Maybe it's your fault. Maybe you're not paying enough attention to them, or maybe you aren't interesting. It's easy to become more interesting: do more fun stuff, read more interesting magazines, talk to more cool people.
When I was younger, I was shy and would have to write down lists of things to talk about. Is it pathetic to outline a list of topics, and then make sure that you're comfortable talking about them? Probably (ok definitely). But nobody has to know that you're prepping...
Most of all, just take responsibility for your love life. If things aren't going well, figure out what's up and make some upgrades.
3) Don't demonize womenThis is the flip side of taking responsibility. A lot of nice guys I know demonize women, and blame them for having the wrong priorities.
There's nothing wrong with bitterness towards the other sex (we've all been there). But demonizing an entire gender in general will get you nowhere. It's a lot more productive to focus on what you can control: yourself.
-----------------------
When it comes to dating, be a man, take responsibility, and don't demonize women. Whatever you don't, please don't be a "nice guy"!
Sincerely,
A Recovering Nice Guy
True 
Lifetime
Comments (46)
have you ever though...let HER finish first? sheesh..talk about fallin asleep...
Hmm, that's an interesting perspective. So you're saying that all the nice guys eventually wake up and become jerks?? (jk) But yeah, I can understand what you're saying.
First off, a John post! Haven't seen that in a while.
Second, I kinda agree as a fellow recovered nice guy. I still consider myself closer to being a nice guy than an asshole, but I like to think I've learned my lessons over the years and became more balanced between those two extremes. You can still be nice when need be, but also know when to hold your own.
I guess you can call me either lucky or brave. I'm kind of on the fence when it comes to being a nice guy and a man. It depends on the situation. Yet, I have a girlfriend kind of like me. Funny enough, we were friends for days, instead of weeks.
And I hate to look like that wimp right there, but you got to see where he is coming from there. On TV, you hardly see a woman describe that they want a man who is a nice guy at the right time, and an asshole at the right time. And most of us men know that's what they want. Someone who is a healthy mixture. Someone that is not possessed by their iron fists and all that. Once women admit, they like a man who doesn't mind being an asshole at the right time, then he might get somewhere. One girl admitted she likes a bit of nice and a bit of a*hole, and by then, I was just happy that this girl was honest enough not to look innocent all the time.
And like I always said, if the guy is nerdy nice, blame the first woman in their life: their mom. They teach you about what women are in the first place, and how to approach them.
I really don't buy this argument, but that's ok.
A lot of women really, truly want @$$h0les, but just don't admit it to themselves, or anyone else, really. Why do you think they keep ending up with guys that treat them like crap and talk down to them and sometimes beat them? If they don't get out of a relationship like that right away, they're practically begging for it to keep going. Whenever one of those girls actually ends up with a real man like you're explaining a guy should be, they start becoming little b****es and find reasons to feel like the relationship isn't going well even if it's actually fine. So "nice guys" aren't totally off-track in thinking that women want guys that are a-holes.
That being said in deffence of nice guys, you are still right. Nice guys do need to grow some balls.
hahahahahaha "non threatening genitalia"
There is one freakishly huge gash in your theory, not to say that I disagree at all with the post..more to the fact that what women want...women do want a "man"...BUT
Most women in their entire lifetimes...will never figure out the difference between an @$$h0le, and a real man.
You can tell them the differences too! Still gonna be the same.
nothing wrong with being a nice guy... i'm dating one right now =)
My advice: Be that "other guy" and let her vent with some other nice guy who won't be getting in her pants.
It's true, women don't want "nice guys" (read: whimps) they want grown men that know how to handle their business. Which isn't the same thing as an "a-hole" as so many people tend to think. Grown men can be nice, sure, but they're not OVERLY nice, and that's the problem with "nice guys." They are too much to handle. Too emotional, and too needy... if I wanted to date a girl, I'd be a lesbian.
@aurastar@xanga - A lot of the women that stay with abusive men don't stay with him because they want an a-hole. They stay with him because they don't believe they can get anyone else, whether they tell themselves that or someone else does. At some point they have to wake up and realize they don't deserve to be treated like dirt, and that they don't have to settle for it or else be alone forever. It is weakness on her own part to stay with an abusive man, and when she finds her strength, she leaves. It is not because she secretly loves a-holes, it's because she secretly loves being WITH someone - anyone - and doesn't think she can do any better.
excellent post.
I still think that since I'm such a really nice guy I deserve all the hot women in the world. operative word being "hot"
Had to rec for that picture.
Wow, this is the BEST post EVER! I'm so tired of guys claiming that they're "nice" and due to that, they finish last. It's totally not the case! How is it MY fault that my boyfriend had the guts to ASK ME OUT? Does that make him any less of a nice guy? I don't think so! Some guys should, like you said, grow some balls and instead of waiting around for the girl to come to some "realization" just tell her already!
nice guys are girly.
THANK YOU!!! This past school year in my AP Comp class, we had a discussion about what girls wanted. And from there, it was this huge boys versus girls debate. I remember me and one guy got into it because he didn't understand why a girl would say she wants a sensative guy, but then when she gets one, says he's too soft or girly. I kept trying to explain that it's about being a man. Treating a woman right and being good, but being a man when you have to.
If some guy at a bar is disrespecting me and my man doesn't do anything, yes, I will think of him as too much of a nice guy. But that doesn't mean I want a violent man who starts fights for nothing. It's some sort of middle ground between being a nice guy and a total jerk. And as you said, that is what we call being a MAN.
nice guys don't always dress like a wimp. but then they hire me and we're in business. :)
good post.
yeah...a lot of nice guys just don't seem manly enough....great, you appreciate my feelings, but now go outside and saw some logs or build a fence, something. be a MAN.
WTF! Six foot or less!
i dont think that counts as a nice guy....its more like....he can't be bothered to work hard, take the courage and get his ass out of the house to tell her.
Agreed--"nice guys" need to take responsibility for their relationship failures. A woman who can get sex from one guy and a good friendship from another doesn't necessarily want to change the situation! She may be attracted to the guy but doesn't want to ruin the friendship that they have because he doesn't show interest interest in her.
Bwahahahahaha!!!!
@cd867@xanga - I'm not talking about women who stay with one a-hole. I'm talking about women that go through one a-hole after another. You know the type. My aunt is one of them. Every single one of her relationships has ended up with him talking down to her or abusing her in some way. The type where you sarcastically say, "She sure knows how to pick 'em."
Yoikes. Farbeit from me to disagree with the John-meister, but I completely disagree.
Just as he believes the misconception is that the opposite of nice guy is jerk, I believe that it's a misconception that a nice guy is somehow "not a man."
I really bristled at "Constantly downplaying the sexual tension so that she's not threatened by you?" What's wrong with that. Wanting someone to feel comfortable and secure around you - how is that somehow against "being a man."
Also it's an unfair stereotype that all "nice guys" shuffle the responsibility onto others or that "nice guys" think they're entitled to something.
What makes a man? That's the question. Is it how interesting he is? How many hobbies he has? Whether he prefers blood-n-guts to Pride and Prejudice? Whether he lets little girls paint his fingernails or if he rolls his eyes if approached by anyone under 16? Does it matter if you're shy or don't have a flirtatious personality?
Being a man is being someone a woman can trust. Trust him not to violate her standards. Trust him to be there for her no matter what. Trust him to care about what she cares about - and mostly, trust him to be himself. Should a "nice guy" change for the sake of getting into the game, only for his love interest to realize that he's really not the kind of guy he pretended to be in order to get her attention?
Thanks for the post, btw.
Holy shit, I look just like that picture when I shave.
And I'm a nice guy.
And I have a girlfriend, so sit on it.