Sunday, 12 April 2009
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Chivalry's Not Dead, But It Sure Is Sick
Ever notice how conversations about "how to treat a woman" proceed?
First, a man will say "I treat women with respect."
Another man will pipe in with "Women really want us to lead."
A third man will agree, saying "its our duty to honor a woman by protecting her."
About then, without being asked, a woman will pipe in: "Women don't want you to lead!"
Then another woman will respond "Yes, we do. We need men's strength and leadership."
Someone else (sometimes a man, sometimes a woman) will try to be diplomatic and make a compromise: "men should protect women, but they can't control women."
So, they all grudgingly agree that it is chivalrous for a man to protect a woman and honor her by being sensitive to her, but wrong of a man to demand a woman to obey his every whim. Thus, the solution reached is not one of equality but rather one of temperament: the man can be in charge as long as he is nice about it.
The problem with this conversation is that it treats 50% of the population of the world as if they were of a single mind and demeanor. It says that roles in a relationship should be determined by supposedly universal decrees rather than looking at what works for each individual relationship.
The very question "what do women want," in fact, dehumanizes women. Why treat women as some huge single unknowable obelisk? Why not turn to a woman and ask her "what do YOU want, as an individual?" Some women will say they want to be an equal. Others will claim to thrive under the authority of a strong man. But until it is a question to the individual and not about women as a group, you will never get to know the person you love.
The same thing is true for men. The statement "this is what men should do" limits and stifles individual strengths and weaknesses. Why not turn to a man and ask him "what do YOU want, as an individual?" Some men will say they want to be an equal. Others will claim to thrive under the authority of a strong woman. But until it is a question to the individual and not about men as a group, you will never get to know the person you love.
That is the danger and sickness inside chivalry or any other term meant to encapsulate some code of proper conduct between the sexes. A man who says he honors a woman, but claims that all women at their heart want the same thing, is a sick person. He is cut off from not only the true individuality of his lover, but of himself because he forces himself into a role based on the role he forces her into. He does not let the relationship develop naturally. For some relationships, perhaps even for the majority of them, the truth is similar enough to the "code" that the damage will never be noticed. But for the millions of men and women whose abilities and desires do not conform to the decrees of "chivalry," it is a crippling illness that will keep them all their lives from discovering who their partner is and who they are themselves.
What do you think is the proper conduct between the sexes?
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Comments (29)
It totally depends on how each individual wants to be treated.
Each individual person is different, and wishes to be treated differently. Sex doesn't make a difference. There might be certain qualities that may be more predominant with one sex over the other, but by no means does it mean that all members of that sex should be classified accordingly. There might be certain qualities that may be more predominant with one race, but by no means does it mean that all members of that race should be classified accordingly.
Well said.
I think Miss Aretha got it right all those years ago...
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
!!!
But your flaw is if a man is not masculine and protective, then almost all women will see him an inferior and lame, someone they do not want to be with. So the real question is: Is it right for women to typecast men when they do not wish to be typecasted themselves?
There are basic concepts that fit any relationship, but for the most part it should depend on the people in the relationship.
My best friend demands that men open doors and return phone calls. I prefer to live the 1950's housewife life and would rather be in the kitchen, cleaning and then relaxing watching TV so long as I am provided for and taken care of.
Everyone is different, communication is key.
Oh, and maybe this should also be moved to datingish instead?
Basically you're saying generalization of the sexes is bad. What comes to my mind is, "Duh."
this may sound bad but..think on it .... i treat people the way i wish to...
Wow, great post. You've got some good points.
It's been said by many, many, many experts but... good communication is crucial to the success of a relationship. If you aren't trying to understand the other person, if you've just decided that they're just another man/woman, then you aren't really communicating with that person. You've decided that you don't need to know anything more about that person because you've basically got them figured out. And if you are thinking that, you're probably wrong
A strong man?? where?
well no human comes with instructions so your basically working from scratch.
"What do you think is the proper conduct between the sexes?"
True respect. And that includes not making sweeping generalizations based on terms such as "sexes".
yes, there needs to be a mutual respect and, in turn, each individual in the relationship needs to respect themselves. the only problem with asking what someone wants (aside from the fact that you might not like the answer) is that the person might not know. some will take offense at being put on the spot like that, for some it will work, and some will just lie to your face.
but you of course hit on a lot of the key to relationships: each one is different and you can't expect to act the same way in all of them.
as for chivalry...you should be opening the door because you want to and because that makes you feel good, not just because it's what you've been told to do (and that we expect people like). that's the ideal at least...
@The_Tudor_Rose@xanga - yup! sounds like datingish material alright. lol.
@sainara@xanga - err but it has a mans sorta view...
Honestly, I don't care what a man thinks of me, as long as he respects me. I would rather have respect than love any day. Love can come out of respect, but how can you love someone if you have no respect for that person?
I have been married 53 years and still trying to figure out what she wants. I play it day by day and sometimes, hour by hour.
2 words : golden rule
There is no certain, set "proper conduct" between the sexes. Some women prefer to have a guy in the lead, some prefer to be in the lead themselves - same goes with guys. Some prefer to be equal, etcetc. Everyone has their own personal preference.
@The_Tudor_Rose@xanga - Agreed.
Ho-ly-shyt...I don't kno how to answer that last question, but this is a damn good post!
One of the best posts I've seen here! You said it and I don't have anything to add, for once.
@NVRSAD_DAY@xanga -
Awwww, this made me think of my late grandparents.
http://stores.ebay.com/TIN-SIGNS-and-THINGS-4-U
I really enjoyed reading this. Very insightful.
i think if not just men and women but if everyone treated each other in every instance with respect and understanding the world would be better. I personally think not only chivalry is dead but also common courtesy. As far as interpersonal relationships go, I think if we really listen to each other, listen with our hearts, and just accept each other for who we are we'll go a long way towards having a good relationship. Sometimes, though, it takes really knowing and loving yourself first to be able to know the other person... and then accept and love them.
http://stores.ebay.com/TIN-SIGNS-and-THINGS-4-U