Thursday, 12 February 2009
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Will America Ever Portray Homosexual Men As Manly?
I think in America there has been high standards for men set by the media. And the funny thing is, it's not the most recent media I think of when I imagine media-driven manliness. I think of old school western flicks.
There's something extremely manly about bustin' into a bar with swinging doors, hearing the weighted thump of the heels of your cowboy boots hitting the wooden floor while your spurs are jangling just enough to let people know that you're a badass.
You've got two pistols at your sides waiting for the first sign of some moron who wants to pick a fight with you.
Then there's the modern day manly man. When I think of this character I'm usually graced with thoughts of Man vs. Wild and Survivorman. Those guys, while perhaps a bit mentally challenged, know how to be a manly man.
Need to build a fire in the middle of nowhere? No problem. Need to survive for seven days on bugs? Pshh, please... How about a challenge? I think if you crossed one of these dudes with one of the western guys you'd probably have a badass so incredibly badass that even G.I. Joe would piss himself standing in this guys presence.
All of this has been to help you get a picture in your mind - a picture of manly men. Now, compare that to your normal image of a homosexual man. The same? Different?
I would venture to say that you think of the western guy busting through the bar doors, ordering a couple shots of whiskey, and then sweeping his girl off her feet to kiss her, not sweeping hi boyfriend off his feet and making out with him in the bar.
I bet you don't picture a Survivorman catching his helicopter home just to open his door to find his life partner waiting at home for him.
Do you think homosexual men can be manly men? And, do you think that culture, especially American culture, will ever be able to portray a homosexual man as an acceptable form of manliness?
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- From: amdrivefan@xanga
- Name: Quinn
- Location: Ashland, Ohio, United States
- About Me: I'm a youth ministry major at Ohio Northern University. I am an active brother in Sigma Theta Epsilon. I love my friends, and I especially love my STE brothers.
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Comments (76)
What really constitutes being manly?
Because if its acting like a barbarian I'd hope no male was "manly" then.
I hope eventually the culture can stop proclaiming stuff about what is "manly," period. Stupid gender ideas get everyone confused and nasty.
But if they still stand, yes, gays can be manly. Liking women is not the only thing that culture defines as "manly" as you showed yourself since none of your examples included anything about women until you specifically swept them in there...
westerns? that was a weird example because I can't see a guy shooting a couple people up and then kissing his gal. Don't they usually run away by then? Because of the western gun fights? Are proper ladies really at a bar in old westerns? Isn't that for the prostitutes or something?
I can easily imagine these things. It's about love when you're all heroic and getting home, not about the fact that the something greeting you has boobs.
I know a gay man that loves "manly" things like sports and drinking. He is one of the "guys". He is in no way a stereotypical gay man, and when people find out he is gay they are surprised. He also doesn't go for "feminine" men.
lyke im gunna wait for str8 peopul to tell me watz manly & wat iznt hahahahahahahahaha
if yerra man then watever you do iz manly
the better queshtun wud be wut izza man
Gay = Homosexual = attracted to men. The term has picked up all sorts of cultural connotations that don't need to be there. There are effeminate men who are attracted to men, and gay men who are not effeminate. It really comes down to this idea of a "third sex" and the definition of masculinity, what it means to be a male. There's a conception that men cannot be same-sex attracted and remain masculine, mainly because of the proxy mentality. For me, masculinity is a set of life principles that include bravery, honour, integrity and courage at the top. Having a dick doesn't necessarily make you a man. You've got to earn it. By that definition, there are a lot of unmasculine men, gay and straight, these days.
Well, a gay man can BE manly. This is a simple fact. Some women can BE manly too. NPH (Neil Patrick Harris) is filled with manly awesome (not in a rough gruff and tough way, but in kinda a dude manly way) in How I Met Your Mother, even though in real life he is gay. Does that count?
But otherwise, the stereotypical traits associated with male homosexuality are generally contrary to the stereotypical traits associated with masculinity.
Oh, and for the inevitable gender difference haters, I LOVE GENDER DIFFERENCES. Frankly, I love the fact that females are different from males. It's yin and yang. I'm 100% for equality in behavior and action and freedom and salary, but the fact that we ARE different in appearance and attitude and personality and dress is WONDERFUL. Do women HAVE to be feminine? No. Do men HAVE to be masculine? No. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a definition of masculinity and femininity that are different from one another. Men and women are different. They have different appearances, different hormones, different reproductive organs, different personalities, and yes, different standards within society. Neither should necessarily be 'better' than the other, but DIFFERENT IS GOOD. That's all i have to say about that here...
I can tell you that there more manly gay men where I am (in the city) than real men. It's also funny because since you mentioned the ol' Western cowboy badass . . and then now when someone think of a cowboy, they often times refer to Brokeback Mountain.
But you know, what really makes a man a man is the ability to not be afraid (and gay men definitely aren't afraid of being gay around straight people) nor do real men that are straight are not afraid to be around gay men.
@MusingsOfAnAlmostSocio@xanga - Right on! In college I did studies in developmental psychology, and there are definite behavioural differences between boys and girls from early on. Sure, there are individual differences (not all boys are crazy about cars or turning everything into a weapon, and not all girls are all about dolls and playing house) so contrary to what modern psychology tells us, that gender roles are learned (to an excent they are as far as cultural expressions go), but there are and should be distinctions between the sexes.
@laytexduckie@xanga - One thing I'd add to that is that "real men" may be afraid, but they don't let the fear rule them. Courage is not the absence of fear, but acting in spite of it. And men know who they are and are comfortable with that. They don't necessarily need "accessories."
At least Gay Men Aren't Afraid of telling a Women Like it Is! haha I'm jk.
No, I don't think the media will ever play men off as 'manly'
But..Brokeback Mountain sure damn well proved them wrong..
The Boondock Saints.
Willem Dafoe.
@vocalcomposer@xanga - Well said!
some gay men are cute
so i dont care if their "manly" or not. i think america has accepted gays and lesbians although i dont know if people think their manly or not cause i dont speak for the majority...just myself. besides gay men have more fashion sense than men who arent gay thus i think thats why they can relate more to the female population/have more female friends but i guess thats also why some people think their not "manly" enough.
i don't know many straight men that are manly.
I definitely think so. My most recent post is about this question exactly. You all should check it out.
Do you think that gay men can be manly men? Yes.
And, do you think that culture, especially American culture, will ever be able to portray a gay man as an acceptable form of manliness? Able? Yes. Likely? No.
Going strictly on the typical stereotypes as our basis for the definition of manly....... Yes, I think gay men can be manly. My best friend is a "manly" gay guy. He is one of the guys I grew up with and he fits most all of the "macho guy" stereotypes. He hunts, fishes, drives a truck, drinks beer sometimes getting just on the cute side of tipsy.... He can play the guitar at the campfire after hiking up the side of a mountain..... He has muscles on his muscles and in his boots, jeans and stetson he has that rugged manly look that makes a girls heart melt... He has a strong sense of honor and his word is as good as gold. He knows how to treat a lady and always says just he right thing and when he tells someone he is gay they generally think he is joking. I hope some day hollywood will recognize people as people ......wonderful in their diversity... but I am not holding my breath. .....~ Echo
of course gay men can be manly. I know of several. I don;'t think being gay means you aren't a man. There are straight man that aren't "manly".
Yes, a gay man can be manly, and sooner or later they are going to be portrayed that way (on a regular basis) in the media.
Those movies (or shows) that you mentioned, are somewhat scary. I'm not sure I want a man who'se so tough he can chew steel and spit out railroad spikes.
there are absolutely manly gay men
just like theres feminine lesbians
i dont think that we'll ever see a gay man as a manly guy, at least not in my lifetime
its all because of the stereotypes
and theres a gay guy at my school
he just tries too hard to fit the stereotype of flamboyantly gay guys
pretty annoying actually
stereotype suck
and more gay men than lesbians are victims of hate crimes, harassment and suicide
i honestly think that its because straight guys' manliness feels 'threatened' by gay guys
we should ship off all the stereotypical gay guys to be lumberjacks for a couple of years that way if anyone says anything to them, THWACK off with their head with an axe
just sayin'
My least manly male friend is straight. We were all surprised to find this out.
being gay myself ik there are manly gay men, partly bc they are very hott. but i do think the media can portray them as manly, but since most media is marketed to straight people there probably wont be much gay people in it to start with
probably not.
Gay men can be manly. I know my friend won't stand for anyone girlier than he is. And I think Will from Will and Grace is a decently manly gay man.
Actually... One of my favorite past times is imagining Survivorman coming home to his male lover. ...seriously. I really mean that. X)
Honestly. I don't know many straight men who are real men these days. ::shrug.:: don't think that really helps the situation. but. well. you know.
They probably can be manly. Those guys dancing around in the homosexual pride parades in tiaras and prom dresses in front of a float depicting a penis the size of a fire engine don't help matters very much, but then again, there's all sorts of gay folks, as there are all sorts of normal folk. hur hur.