Saturday, 24 January 2009
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Why Chivalry Died
This idea of chivalry is much like what old, White Republicans refer to as “the good old days.” For the old, White guy, it is reminiscing about a fantasy time when there were no minorities, women stayed in quietly in the house, and you could sit in a rocking chair on your porch overlooking your plantation while sipping a mint julep.
For a girl, the notion of chivalry is about a guy being a knight in shining armor that will kiss your hand before asking you to dance in a palace ballroom, give you his spot on a floatation device after your ship sinks in the freezing waters of the Atlantic Ocean, and pretty much do everything for her. This myth stems from revisionist tellings of King Arthur’s Camelot, C-grade Rom-Coms, and various incarnations of Jane Austen novels.
Why did chivalry fail? Well, I argue that it never really existed in the context that females delude themselves into believing.
Much like the racist’s imaginations of the “good old days,” those times were just that, figments of imagination. The truth is, royalty treated their women like shit. They had multiple wives and mistresses and some even got killed for not bearing the right number of sons.
Fiction would make you believe that all the nobles and knights were fairy tale Lancelots, when really, they were modern day jackasses with a lot of money. And all those gentlemanly gestures in more recent history were just accepted societal methods of picking up chicks, much like how you had to wear top hats and monocles.
Mind you, these were times when women could not work, get higher educations, or vote. Thank God times have changed and the world has evolved and streamlined the courting technique into a simple get-boozed-up-and-have-sex.
Please do not confuse chivalry with common courtesy. We hold doors open for the handicapped guy or help an old lady reach for a jar of prunes because it’s human nature to help out when someone is in need.
What is not acceptable is being P-whipped into treating a girl like a princess. Women want to be treated like goddesses, but they do not need to be. In this world of feminist equality, if we treat you like a princess, then you should treat us like princes. But that dynamic never plays out, does it? So why should men give up more while the woman does not? That is not being a man, that is just being stupid.
Chivalry itself is a wasted effort and woefully inefficient. Why do you think it died out? Men have since figured out that they don’t need to jump through all those antiquated hoops to get what they want. It’s like a huge collective bargaining agreement.
We get the same thing whether or not we treat you like royalty, so why should we choose to?
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Comments (216)
I mostly agree. I think there is more to the history of chivalry, though that's fairly incidental to your main argument. Chivalry wasn't how men of the court treated their women; it grew out of a tradition of knights pining for and fighting for women of a higher station than them, idolizing and praising an object of affection that they could never attain. They would never get anything more than a token or a nod from the woman, but chivalry was about them extolling her anyway.
Not that I think actual chivalry makes much sense in any situation, let alone our modern culture. Respect is much better, in my opinion, and I think you pointed that out well.
You're totally right, even down to "treating woman like princesses they should treat us like princes". It works, you know. Try it sometime. It's not hard, and if the girl is quality, she'll return the favor. It's not about following a code, it's about wanting to do what makes your girl happy, and vice versa.
I disagree with the fact that chivalry is dead. There is a difference, like you stated, between common courtesy and chivalry. Most people practice common courtesy and think that it's enough... and for some it is.
However, I was raised to be a gentleman and learned to be a romantic early in life. I can honestly say I'm chivalrous and my girlfriend greatly appreciates it and returns the favor. Musings is completely right. It's about trying to make her happy, which for me, ends up matching with a "code" of chivalry.
I totally disagree with that whole "White republican" statement. How riduclous to paint that label on something that was a Democrat stronghold during the time of slavery. Republicans, (remember Lincoln?) came along to rid the country of slavery. Somehow this seems to be lost in history. Read a good history book before you show your ignorance again.
WHAT IS WITH ALL THIS CHIVALRY TALK!?
just don't be a dick and us woman will be happy. Or we should.
EVERYONE STOP BITCHING!
Hahaha this was hilarious. I think that you make some good points, but you see only one side of it. Many a man did go above and beyond to honor and take care of their lady.
Personally I love treating a girl like a princess, but only if she's earned it. I do not like baby sitting girls, and I do not like spoiled bitches. There are way too many of those these days and not enough ladies. When I am dating a girl I am into all the romantic stuff, and I go out of my way to be nice and sweet to her; but as I said earlier, that's because she's earned it.
I never considered this, but I quite agree with your view considering what chivalry is based on. I used to call what I did chivalrous, but now that I think about it, you're right, it is just common courtesy (and I just noticed, the root of that is court-, which sounds suspiciously like the point of chivalry. But, for lack of a better word...). I help people when they need it, and frequently extend it even if they don't. Of course, I think that guys are more likely to help women because in my experience the gratefulness and smiles received seem much brighter and rewarding than from men. Thinking the other way, if I were female, I'm not sure how my views would be since I have an objective view of people and honestly do find females to be more attractive. Ah, digression....
haha, chivalry. Personally, i just like gentlemen, but they don't need to go overboard. I mean, hold the door open? open the car door? I never expect a guy to pay on dates, or anything like that. I like the nice guys.
And when a guy treats me right, i treat him just as well.
@MusingsOfAnAlmostSocio@xanga - I'll return all favors and more ;)
Good post. I always thought that chivalry was silly, anyway. Everybody should lend a helping hand; gender shouldn't even be an issue.
@dadwithnothingelsetodo@xanga - Keep in mind the Democrats were a much different party back then. They were equivalent to today's Republicans.
I mostly agree with this. Except its in my nature to always treat the SO like a prince, so I expect the same in return. If I weren't putting in extra effort then I wouldn't ask him to either, its not realistic.
I think chivalry is another word for putting on a show...being fake or manipulative in order to get the result you're seeking. So in that case, I don't want a man who's chivalrous...I want a man who calls me on my bullshit, and isn't afraid of me because I'm highly educated and know what the hell I'm talking about.
Oh...and "streamlined courting" as "getting boozed up and having sex"? Seriously? That's not courting, it's mating, without the expectation of offspring. Courting is more like dating than screwing.
Thanks for the history reminder -- chivalry was indeed installed in a patriarchal society. I don't mind chivalric gestures for women, esp. my own, I think that some girls' bar is set too high cause of the "Notebook" and Korean dramas haha.
@dadwithnothingelsetodo@xanga - The meaning of republican has changed since Lincoln too...
i love when a man treats me nice and treats me like i am special. i love the idea of chivalry and wish it wasnt dead. u have the views of a feminist and i never made that march. i will treat a dude like a man if he makes me feel like a woman, romance is dead as well it is depressing to a hopeless romantic. all men seem to be interested in is strippers or dirty sluts who will let them fuck their ass then not call them because it was a hook up thats all. pathetic the way things have become.
women are not princesses. the fairy tales should be revised so there wont be any girls in delusional state when they grew up. and disney too should stop making movies now.
i disagree.
firstly, back in the day there were some "chivalrous" guys. (or courteous, call it what you like). true, the royalty were mostly jerks, but poloticians today are liars, and you cant judge an entire population based on the way it's rich people or racist people act.furthermore, i resent your sweeping generalization there. first calling those who remember chivalry "white republicans" then calling them "racists". lets not get political here, and i dont even wanna hear that right-wing = racist.
another thing; polygamy didnt happen as often as im sure you would like to think in early america. there was alot of cheating, but there is a distinct difference. also, you will find that most immorality of this nature was concentrated in the south. in the north, things were realistically as they are today (+technology)
now, as for chivalry being dead and why its dead: It was never really "alive". i will give you that, but there has allways been a few who treated their girls right, with respect and courtesy. i'd say the ratio of douchebags to decent guys is the same today as it was forever ago. when your old white repubs say that it was better back then, they are speaking about as much truth as when they say they walked backwards, barefoot in the snow, 8 miles to school and back every morning.
it didnt happen.
changing "chivalry" to "common courtesy"... well, if you have ever read man-law from a guys perspective, you will see that this kind of courtesy isnt as common as you think, and the reason it is called chivalry is because only the few and the elite practice it.
Amen to that. Granted I'm typically like a 'southern gentalman', I'll open doors for women and pull otu chairs... and even stand for them (sometimes) but it's pretty stupid if they don't return the favors (and most won't). I'm constantly amaized how women seem to expect they should get everything they want the way they want it, and feel no obligation (or desire even) to return the favor.
and wow, you're catching a lot of flack it seems. I consider most things as tounge-in-cheek... obviously you can't Actually assign properties to any specific group, so in doing, I can't take those assignments seriously... and since you seem to be a thinking, I mostly doubt you actually mean them. Who knows though, good luck~
If the only thing you are after is sex and the only reason you would treat someone well is to get it, that makes you a jerk.
If you treat a woman amazingly well and she doesnt' reciprocate, that's a sign that you picked the wrong one. If you treat a good woman like a princess, she will treat you like a prince.
I treat my man like royalty... and he returns the favor.
I don't think chivalry is dead, so much as evolved with times, just like everything else in the world has.
As for myself, I did have the problem in the past of being that "nice guy" that treated women like goddesses and got walked all over. I've found a healthy balance now.
You're funny!
I remember someone who said chivalry was dead. His name was Edmund Burke. In 1790. Chivalry is not dead, just the definition has changed. "Chivalry is dead" is a convenient term for assholes and women who only encounter assholes.
i agree, take away their kate huson movies, cosmopolitan mags, sex and the city, endless rom. novels, and we can build a decent society
@MJRx9000@xanga - Haha. But c'mon, let's call it a fair trade. You can take away our Jane Austen, rom coms, chick lit, and SATC. But we get to take away your Playboy, Penthouse, Maxim, and Pam Anderson's boobs.
One set of unreasonable expectations for another, no? Tit for tat (or rather... tat for tit?? :P)